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Hello and welcome to the English for Engineers podcast. I am your host Olivia Augustin. Tune in as I dig deep into all things technical English, business English and international business communication to bring you a lifetime of knowledge in a digestible format. Hello friends, fellow engineers and the occasional word nerds who are listening in. Today I'm very excited. I have a really, really special guest at the English for Engineer podcast. Her name is Kate Dahl. She is a career consultant for internationals in Denmark, helping internationals integrate into the Danish labor market. And in this function, and the reason why she is on our podcast today, she also works with a lot of engineers. Hey Kate, so good to see you. to have you on the podcast. Welcome. Thank you so much for having me, Olivia. So I'm just so excited to be here. Cool. Hey Kate, do you want to fill us in a little bit and tell us about your background and how you, because we can already hear your American accent, how did you end up in Denmark? How did you... end up as a career consultant? Oh wow, so many questions, so many questions. I'll try to punch it into as many short sentences as possible. So, okay, long story short, I met two exchange students that changed my life forever. One was a Dane and one was a German. And I come from this small town, middle of nowhere, and they were the first people that accepted me for who I really was. And that influenced me to go to Denmark for the first time back in 2007. I visited my friend and I knew that I just have to come back to Europe. Finding me, you know, because as an American, you know, you generalize, oh Europe and you forget about all the countries, right? So then I knew I wanted to come back. But I ended up studying abroad in Germany, being a student in Germany, and I also was attempting to do my PhD. I was also an English teacher, teaching children and adults English. One of the most fun jobs I ever had was working at the prison I never felt so safe in a prison. So yeah, and then I met the love of my life. He's Danish. We met through the mutual friend who was an exchange student. I went to a party, and one thing led to another. And, you know, I've been with him for now 12 years. I've been married for seven and two beautiful children, almost nine months now, and a thre to eventually becoming a career consultant for internationals in Denmark but then before then I knew that when I had to come to Denmark I had to reinvent myself because I was a humanities major and so then I went and looked at the Danish labor market and saw the need to work into sales so I went into the sales startup tech world for about five years and had more than five positions in five years which is a lot. Oh wow, yeah it is. to look at is it half full and not half empty and decided to take control of my life and that I was going to run the narrative. Meaning that for example I saw a need for what I do now as a career consultant. A lot of internationals were coming to me at my Danish course and said why are you so good at getting jobs? Could you give me some advice and some tips? And that just ended up happening organically. And then back in 2020 I started doing my business, Career Denmark, And then, yeah, I still, it's one of the best years I ever had. And I've been working with internationals of all different backgrounds, those who are from abroad who want to come to Denmark, those who are located in Denmark as well. And yeah, and I've been just helping internationals, mainly those who are highly educated to come to Denmark and teaching them how to get a job in the Danish cultural context. And it's not only based on my own experiences. on the individual's background to help train them. I don't do placements. A lot of people have the misinformation that's saying, oh you're a career consultant so can you get me a visa or a placement? No, that's not gonna happen. I just do the cultural training because a lot of internationals don't understand that how you do things back in India are so different culturally than in Denmark or even like Germany, right? Like you know, because you come from Austria, if I remember correctly. So how you do things in Austria is so different than how you in Denmark. There are some similarities, but there are also differences and people don't understand that there are these cultural differences in between. So I do a lot of my methods have been developed over time and now I've been seeing the results from the fruits of labor. Yeah exactly. Wow interesting. And you're already hitting that one spot that we were discussing The title of this episode is Developing a Global Mindset for Engineering Professionals. And you already said... you're working with internationals, it's about cultural differences. So what does that mean to have a global mindset? Because that is an expression that is thrown around very often and people use it a lot, but a lot of people don't know what it means. So what does it mean to have a global mindset as an industry professional or in our case as an engineer? And tied in with your US American who moved to Germany and then to Denmark. Yeah. So that's a very, very good question. Um, because for me having a, or in general, my definition of having a global mindset means being open and being aware of diverse perspectives and cultures and business practices from like globally. And it involves understanding that different regions may approach problems and solution in like unique ways and being able to integrate this awareness into your professional practices. So from my personal experience, having been working in the United States and Germany and now Denmark, I've seen how valuable this mindset can be. So like in the U.S. for example, the emphasis is much more about being innovative and speed. While in Germany, it's more about precision and quality are so paramount, right? And then like in Denmark, the focus was more on work-life balance and collaboration. And that really is so pivotal in the Danish mindset. differences like enriches your professional toolkit and makes you adaptable to various working environments and especially for like an engineer who might only move within like one continent even for example, maybe we can talk more about this as well, like having a global mindset is still like very, very crucial. So for example, like European projects often involve like cross-border collaboration, right? And understanding these cultural nuances can improve communication. So even within like a, if you're, even if you're living within like a single, like continent or like even like within like a single country, businesses are increasingly becoming more international in scope. And so a global mindset can differentiate you and make you more effective in your role. Mm hmm. And You already said it, some people only plan to move from one country to another single country. Why is it still necessary to call that a global mindset? Because it's very much about being aware of these like cultural differences. So maybe, sorry, repeat the question one more time. Okay. So. I'm so glad I'm not the only one who starts a sentence and forgets what she's saying all the time. Story of my life. I'm hoping that you're editing, so it's fine. Maybe not, because we're all humans and I don't know. I think about it. Oh, you're fine. So let's say someone plans to move from Colombia to Denmark. Why can't you say, hey, you already know Colombian culture and you're coming to Denmark now, I'm teaching you Danish culture. That's enough. Two things you need to know, one thing you need to learn. Why is it still necessary to deal with a global mindset? Especially in the engineering world, it's so important to even have even much more of a global mindset because you're going to be working in international environments a lot of the time. It's not just, especially in Denmark, it's not just working in a Danish company. It's also about working in a global company. You're going to be working with, you know, people from Argentina and from Portugal and from all over. So it's important to have the intercultural communications training and to be just aware of these diverse perspectives and cultures and business practices because so that then you can be like culturally sensitive. Do you know what I mean? Mm-hmm I know what you mean. I often, well my clients and my students ask me that question I often say you never know where your next co-worker is coming from. you might be moving from Brazil to, I don't know, Germany, but maybe your colleague is Polish or from, I don't know, Canada or somewhere else, yeah. And you never know if you move again. Engineers, we love numbers and facts and statistics. How can engineers develop and cultivate such a mindset? Because it sounds foreign to our nature to deal with that stuff. How can engineers start developing such a mindset? What can they do? And does their English proficiency... their ability to speak English, does it really play such a big role? Those are very good questions. So I believe engineers especially can develop like a global mindset by just simply actively seeking out like diverse experiences and like perspectives. Right. And there is like a few strategies on how you can do that. So like just for example, engaging in like a cross-cultural team if you have one. Right. Like participate in like international projects, you know, because this exposure will help you understand like, you know, working in different working styles and communication methods. Right. And another way. like travel and work abroad, like if possible, like take the opportunity to work in like different countries because having firsthand experiences is just so invaluable, right? And then another way you can do it if you can't, let's say you can't do one of those other two things, you can just like continuously learn, like attend international conferences, like workshops, webinars, read books and articles, like just have like about global business practices and cultural differences, Or like if you don't like or grab an ebook or like a not an ebook, like a like listen to a podcast, listen to your podcast. That's a very good one. Yeah. And then another way is like networking, like build relationships with professionals from different countries. And this can be like professional networks, like LinkedIn, for example, like international associations, like, or like local experience groups, like go on Facebook and like, go find the different groups that you're of countries that you're interested in. And like, like for engineers for example there's tons of like global like engineering Facebook groups out there as well where you can like get different perspectives about like hey like how do you work and do things in Portugal like within your like you know within your firm for example right you just ask questions like be might like be proactive like be mindful like be curious right and when it comes back to this idea of your English proficient about English often the, I guess you can call it like lingua franca in international business and engineering context, like it's about having clear and effective communication in English allows you to collaborate with a wider range of professionals, like especially like to access like a broader spectrum of information and research and present your ideas more effectively, like on a global stage, like that is why you need to be especially proficient in English. clear and effective because efficiency is like I think that's what every engineer loves but we have to be but I always say clear is kind and communicate very clearly especially in an international setting because that's that ties in into what you said about exposure my idea of what is normal is not your idea of what is normal And I really realized that when I, A, as an Austrian, married a German and B, when we moved from Austria to the Netherlands, what I thought is normal and what everybody should know and how everybody should react in a situation is not what is normal somewhere else. So I always also say, question your definition of the norm. it might be different somewhere else. So how did you do that? What was something that you experienced with your head? It's normal. Everybody's doing it, but no one did it in Germany. Oh, a really good example. I remember when I first came to Germany and no one could understand me, not even my English because of my accent. So what I did was to be able to be understood and to have clear and effective communication was to change my accent. You know, like, I like to make the joke that, you know, I come like I sound like Janice from Friends. Like it's very similar to kind of that accent that I find. Oh my god. It's very like nasally. Yeah. Oh my god. You know. But that's kind of like how I sounded because you have more of the note. Like it's a lot more nasally. So I had to learn to talk without using my nose. Interesting. And yeah. And it's funny because you know, I love Stephen Colbert. Like Stephen Colbert is one of my favorite comedians. talk show host of all time and you know I was also very inspired by him because you know with his story he comes from South Carolina and no and in order for him to go into the entertainment industry he needed to change his accent to a northern accent so he lost his southern accent so that he could be understandable and that's a guy that didn't know he was from South Carolina you can you really cannot a wonderful Carolinas but you really cannot tell I maybe, yeah, someone from Carolina can tell. I can't tell that he's not from the North of the States. He sounds very New York-an to me. Right, exactly, because he has more of the New York accent, because he trained himself to be that, because he was going into the entertainment industry. And again, like when you're going into the entertainment industry, you are still trying to have a more global mindset. And also because he wants to be a global audience. And a global audience and to be understood. me to you know to be clear and to be understood and I knew like okay that's what I need to do and so I just did it and that's how I was able to train myself. Because you know what I really love that you were saying that as a native speaker because I'm working with I am one and I'm working with non-English native-speaking engineers so very often we It's even native speakers have to adjust their accent or have to adjust work on their pronunciation. So it's not something that's only for people who are learning the language. Everyone has to adopt adapt. It's very early. It's very early over here. Everyone has to adapt. So it's not something that. Yeah, I like that. Even. communication it's not a one-way street even native speakers have to adapt and have to in some situations tone down their English and use a simplified grammar to be understood Yeah. So, and how did that change? So you came from the States to Germany, you adapted to the German culture, with ups and downs, I guess, with hilarious misunderstandings, maybe. And so you thought, whoo-hoo, I know how Europe works. And then you moved to Denmark. What happened then? Oh, Lord. Yeah. You know, it's funny because, you know, when I first came to Denmark, you know, it was funny because I lived in Flensburg. So it's the last city on earth before you get to Denmark in Germany. Germany, right? So it's, you know, when I was going and visiting back and forth, I kind of had this like glazed, you know, idea of what Denmark was, you know, because I was, you know, I was in my 20s, like early 20s, you know, going to Denmark and, you know, partying, you know, things like this, right, and meeting people. And then, you know, as and then when I came over, then it's just like, then once you have like the move, then perspective because that's another reason like it's great to like go on vacation and have like you know go and like you know have business meetings in another country and have these kind of you know ideas about how a country is but then once you move to a country which I would encourage anyone to do at least once in their lifetime you're set in with like a different feeling and like oh this is not this is not German culture this is Danish culture right It's funny because I really learned along the way that Europe has so many different cultures and so many different countries. I like to explain if someone wants to get a job somewhere, they say they want to come to Europe. I'm like, well, it's asking the question, well, I want to get a job in Asia. Because there's so many cultures, Japan is different than China, and China is different than South Korea. nuances. Yeah exactly and so when I when I came to Denmark I just you know I realized like oh this is like different you know like to give an example of a difference I yeah Jentelo is a really good difference I feel because it's a yes so Jentelo or law of Jenta is a Danish philosophy that was very And it's this idea of not boasting or bragging. It's not a, you can't, you shouldn't be standing out whatsoever. And, um, and that was something that was very hard for me as an American because, you know, I'm loud, I'm boisterous, I'm a little bit out there. And, uh, and it's funny because I'll tell you a story, you know, I was in Bornholm and sometimes it still hits me like the other day about like, you know, about these different cultures, right? So I was in Bornholm and we were in, I was in Yostel. Sweden and my family and I decided to go, you know to see the town or whatever and it's funny because I ran into a Equations who I've met a very few times in Sweden and I was like is and he because he lives in Malmo And I ran into him and it's like, oh my gosh, like, you know, how are you? And he wasn't like ready for like my very way out there for the American you Yeah for the American me because he was in a different mindset well you know he was I was going to a funeral. So I was like, oh my gosh, and I felt so bad afterward. And so he wasn't like, and he also told me, he just wasn't ready for that. And I was like, oh, and it's again, I wasn't culturally aware, because I'm just very much me being excited and out there. And for some people, that could be a lot, right? So it's being aware of these differences. And there's also, of course, similarities cultures like Sweden and Denmark they are very much about Jentalo and I still was like oh well you know I totally you know it's still quite hard for me and that's another thing about like everyone debates even in Denmark about Jentalo like even like when I talked to Danish natives and stuff and when I post about Jentalo on LinkedIn they're like oh my god like it's everything like it goes up and like the post just like everyone gets so angry when I meant to like talk They, how to say, it's very much about, they're not aware of how to say, even within the culture, because then for example, they're like, well, like for example, in Yentilal, it doesn't like, they would mention, well, you can do this and this with like LinkedIn and making posts and stuff. And that was what the post was about, was about Yentilal and not being like, and about the CV and how it shouldn't be like, how you need to be aware of Yentilal when putting, when writing your CV. And then. So my network was like, well, like, you know, that's not true because of, you know, LinkedIn posts. I'm like, yeah, but like, like LinkedIn and social media doesn't really like applied, like doesn't like engage. Yantelo doesn't work on social media. So you have to. So it's really interesting that how social media and like social media is changes cultures as well. Oh, very much. Yeah. And so and Yantelo just like doesn't apply when it comes to LinkedIn or using it as a platform to promote yourself. Right. was like one of the big changes that I... Yeah, it's interesting. It might be something of the northern countries in... It's obviously not called the Danish word jentelo in the Netherlands, but compared to the Austrian work culture, it's very much about not bragging. They even have a saying, do normal, that is gekke genoeg. If you're acting normal, that's crazy enough in the Netherlands. And even the way... Even the way... they ask about your job is different than how you ask for about someone's background in Austria. That was really interesting to me because even the LinkedIn etiquette in an Austrian would always put up his or her title. because it's a LinkedIn, you know, but it's about your job and you have to put up your title so people know that you're a doctor or an engineer or a master of science or bachelor or whatever. It's absolute no-go in the Netherlands because that would be bragging. You list your certificates but not your title. And my title, it's part of my name, I have it in my passport. If someone asks me to sign with my full name, I have to add my title. That's just how Austria works. If I tell that to a Dutch friend... They're like, you're weird. That's crazy. It's funny because job searching as well. And a really good example is I see a lot of the times they say, those who I work with for years doing years in their industry or within engineering, they'll still put in their title, like, masters. And I'm like, Danes, they don't care that you have a masters. Yes, you need to mention that you have a masters, because that's still important. But that will come across on LinkedIn. that you are a newly graduate because one of the first three things that they see because LinkedIn is so popular in Denmark, more than two-thirds of the Danish population have a LinkedIn profile. It's crazy. Like it's so used very, very heavily and they look at your background photo, they look at your headshot photo and they look at the headline. Those are the first three things that a recruiter or a decision-maker or a hiring manager will look at before going further. And so if they see, oh, masters, they're like, well, this is a newly graduate. You know, they haven't seen it. So you need to like stress your skills and, and competences because that's what is more important to them. Yes, it's nice to have an education, but like they'll just assume and they'll look it down like later. You have to have that anyway. Yeah, exactly. Even, even what really hit me is the way, um, how you ask a person in the Netherlands, what job they're doing. Um, compared to the way you ask someone in Austria in, um, in Dutch, you say. If you know someone a bit better, Wat doe jij? It means, what do you do? And in Austria, you say, what are you? Because if you are an engineer, you are a carpenter, you are a hairdresser, you are a mechanic, it's such a big part of your personality. So even the grammar that revolves around how you ask for someone's background is different. And that tells you a lot about the culture and the working culture, how much you identify with what you're doing. I think it's really interesting. And that's again the ties back to, yes, being able to speak English, absolutely necessary, but grammar mistakes? Everybody's okay with a tiny grammar mistake. If you forget the third person as who cares, people will still know what you, what you want to say. I mean, if it's a professional document, different story, you have someone to proofread it, but cultural mistakes can really hurt your business or hurt your chances of getting a job. Because what you're saying, if you're using all your titles in your headline on LinkedIn and you want to get a job in Denmark, everybody will think you're boasting and you're not a humble person and you're not fun to work with. Exactly. But going back to the English as well, like at least in Denmark, um, people, I get a lot of people as well. It's not only engineers, for example, there's a lot of people who are English teachers who want to come to Denmark. And I'm like, if like people, they don't realize as well, especially English teachers from like other countries that Danes, the Danes English are, they're just like, amazing. It's amazing. Their English is better than mine. So it's, like a pivotal point of the culture. But because they have a lot more experience with English at such a young age, like for example, in cinema, like they don't dub in the cinema. Like they have English, they do with some of the children, like it's becoming more and more with the dubbing, especially on like online services, but in cinemas for a lot of movies, they don't. Just the original sound and subtitles. Exactly. And they learn, I think, at... They start at the first... I think they start at the first grade. I think also with some kindergartens, they also start doing some of the numbers and everything else. So they learn English so young that they're almost... A lot of the time they're native speakers almost. So they have such higher expectations in English. It's also imperative that when you're making your application, when you go to a job interview, you need to be better. Of course it's okay to make some smaller mistakes because also Danes are not native speakers in the end, but they're at such a high level that they will catch it and they might also be like, well, maybe their English isn't as good. That happens a lot of the time with internationals that when I work with them, I realize a little in the process that, oh, they're actually, their English does need some to be improved. Improvements. Because some improvements to be able to be understood. Like, it's fine to have an accent, but it's, they need to be a lot more clear and they need to like have better conversation and also with their grammar. And I would say even what's more important than like writing is conversation, having a natural conversation with not only just like the technical parts. So just being able to have lunch with your colleagues and talk about... Family and the weekend, yeah. Because at the end of the day, business is always between people and you have to be interested in that person. And a lot of business is done over a cup of coffee and not at the conference table. So that is about the Danish job market. So why would you say... because maybe some of my listeners think about moving to Denmark, beautiful country. And pastry, really good. Let's say someone from, let's pick a country, I don't know, Taiwan or Italy, whatever, wants to move to Denmark. Why would you say it's still... why isn't... and they say hey I learned Danish, I'm in a Danish course for four years now, I don't need to learn English because I have my mother language, Italian, and I'm moving to Denmark where I can speak Danish. Why do they still have to be able to speak English? That's a good one. Especially for engineers, I would say having still good English is important because again it's about having a global mindset because English is a global language now. and in order to be able to communicate with your, and like, and having like a career, it will help, I think English will help you have a global, not that it doesn't, but having English gives you access to so many different things in the world, right? Like it gives you access to so many different people and different cultures because the English is what is the language globally now that is bringing us together as people, right? And that is what you need professionally and help you to grow. So that's what I would say that is the most important reason why to improve on your English. Even if you have only in date like even if you're fluent in just Danish and you're like your mother tongue, learn also English to help your career and your global career and helping the global mindset as well in the long run. In the long run. Yeah. And maybe getting English speaking customers. I hope so. Yeah. Or maybe two questions. Let's start with the fun one. Do you have any fun, hilarious or embarrassing story about a language mistake, cultural mistake you made when it doesn't matter moving from the States to Germany or from Germany to Denmark? Something that's yeah, you're still you're already so lovely. What's cracking you up? so I remember when I just came to Germany and I was just learning the language and I needed to use The the toilet and so, you know what I said in German. I said I need to use the badet simmer I need to use the bathroom And they just started laughing at me because they didn't quite understand what I what I needed and this was at a Turkish And I was like, and I said, and then I just said, like, I need to pee, like, I need to go. Like, oh, you need the toilet. And I was like, yeah, because, you know, in American English, like, saying toilet is such a dirty word. And so you don't say toilet. You say, I have to go to the bathroom, right? Because it's more of a nicer, lesser, you know, dirty kind of word, right? And so when I, and then once I came, and then they were laughing and stuff and they're like, you know, they're like, I thought they were just like laughing at me. And they're like, you want to like take a shower. Yes that's what the bathroom is for. Exactly that's what the bathroom is for and then that was like one of the big things I learned like you know what like you need to I thought to myself you need to stop being like a prude American and just like go with the flow on it and like don't be embarrassed by these like small little things right so that that's I think my funny story so that is really funny and it actually is um when I can't remember when it was He said I read something and I don't understand it. Maybe you can explain it They said maybe you will explain to us. What is half a bathroom? They were they were like they were getting some offer for a house and it's two and a half bathrooms and That I think was an Austrian engine. He said what the heck is a two and a half bathrooms did they? Put a wall through or what happened there? You know what I mean. Yeah, I know what you mean, but you know it's funny because like I grew up, all my adulthood, I grew up as an adult in, I hate to say Europe, but Germany and Denmark, I've lived in Europe, I hate to say European culture. Okay, let's use it for her. Yeah, I grew up, I became an adult in European culture because I moved to Germany when I was 18, right? culture here. I grew, I became a woman in Europe, right? Like I was a child, I was a child in the United States and I became an adult in Europe. So do you know what I mean by two and a half bathrooms? Or three and a half bathrooms? Oh yeah, sorry, yeah. Because that ties in. No, sorry. No, no, I just kind of lost it a little bit. So yeah, but what I was going with this was that I, because I didn't grow up as an adult, I- You never bought a house there. I never bought a house. I never looked at apartments and stuff. So a lot, and that's really like, I think for a lot of like children who grow up in like other countries and stuff, right? They, you tend to like, I wouldn't say I lost some of my own culture, but it's still in me, but because culture changes over time. A lot of people come to me and they're like, well, I need help with getting a job in the United States. I'm like, I'm sorry, I don't feel comfortable helping you. I've been away for too long because I'm not as in tuned with the American culture as I am in European or German or even like even today I've been even asked about German. I'm like, sorry. you know, how many years has it been now? Like I've been with my husband for 12 years, it's been nine years now. So even like now it's almost a decade, right? So I'm still not into, like, in, I wouldn't feel comfortable with the German, German culture anymore, like that's why I do what I do with the Danish culture, right? And so now I know more about like, you know, trying to buy a house here and rent, right? We don't use a two and a half bathroom stuff, like we use the meters, like everywhere else, right? But United States, it's like, yeah, they use that. So yeah, I was really confused when I heard the first time it's like what's two and a half bathrooms Why is nobody no one using square meters and just telling me if they're one kitchen one living room one bedroom Yeah, just to clear up the confusion Because that was half a bathroom is a bathroom without a toilet Yeah, and a full bathroom is you have the bathtub shower and the toilet in it, yeah And we just don't use that. In Austria you would say, there's a bathroom and an extra toilet. That's it. And how many square meters, that's always important. But I like the discussion because it's my style of private communication jumping from one topic to the other. Not so much my business style, but what you said before, you moved away from Germany nine years ago, so culture changed, you moved away from the States, you're not comfortable talking about that culture there and I feel very much the same. So I left Austria 13 years ago and when we're when I'm in the Netherlands I'm the Austrian and but when I'm back home in Austria I'm the Dutch because so much of my behavior, how I see things, how I handle things, I'm Dutchified and I'm yeah and a global mindset and is kind of became a became a part of my personality because there's no I guess you feel the same. There is no US Kate. There's no Austrian Olivia. It's kind of cultural schizophrenic. I don't know if I call culture schizophrenic, but I think there is this what happens to a lot of us Experienced if you call us that we don't really have a true sense of belonging or an attachment to one area Normally, right? I mean, maybe some do I can't speak for all of us, right? But I can speak for myself that and there's a lot of people I know who feel that way that you know We once we've been away for so long We just we don't have a country We don't feel, at least for myself, I don't feel nationalistic. Like I am, I am an American and I will say, yes, I am an American, but I don't a hundred percent feel American. I also feel a little bit of German. I feel a little bit of Danish. I do feel a little bit of America. I feel a little bit of everywhere, right? There's no sense of real belonging because to me home is where my family is. My family is my husband and my two little boys. And that is where my family, happens with our family we are gonna be a unit and if we need to move and be somewhere else you'll be a unit there exactly and that is what is home to me like it's not a feeling of an area or attachment to an area or country it's where my unit of my family is and that to me is home mm-hmm I often say I don't I'm not anchored I'm not grounded necessarily like a sailing ship, a sailing boat who can easily hop to another island. Yeah, we didn't discuss that beforehand but last weekend my husband and we were approached by friends who are planning to, not planning, they are moving to another country in three or four weeks and they said, hey, do you have any tips for us moving to another country, to another culture? How did you do that? What did you do? And it was a surprise question so I had all my good answers like two hours later. But if I would ask you that and I said, hey Kate, I'm... I want to move to Germany, I'm from South Carolina, any tips I want to move to Denmark, any tips how to approach that? Or even if I would say, hey Kate, you've never lived in Italy but I'm moving to Italy, do you have any tips for me how to approach that project? What should I be aware of? What should I do? What shouldn't I do? Yeah, well, first and foremost, before you say I want to actually move to the country, make sure that that's exactly where you want to go. Like do your research, find what is the right country fit for you, like the culture that you want to experience, especially if you want to move there, right? Do like, do find out what like the culture etiquette is, because of course, like having a global mindset is being aware of these cultural differences, right? And, out like you know about the area, find out about okay how do you go about job searching, how do you go about getting an apartment, how do you go about you know dealing with bureaucracy, right, and visas and everything, right. So really get your ducks, what we say in English, get your ducks in a row. Yeah, I have one episode that's called how to get your ducks in a row. Oh lovely, I love it. So yeah, listen to episode on ducks in a row so that then you can get more tips on how to move in another country. It's like how to get your ducks in a row. But yeah, no, but anyways, no, that is what I would say is really just do the ground research. Get the foundations in place, like, you know, get the practical things and also the cultural things and do the research. It's not gonna, you know, it's one thing to do the research and then it's another thing to experience, but try as much as you can. Like for example, when I help people with job searching as well and they know that Denmark is the right country and they've done the research, they've done that part. A lot of the times I'm like, okay, well then get your foundations straight if you're going to go job searching about your CV or LinkedIn. These are the pillars that you need or the foundations needed for all the other strategies that you need to job search with, like how to get a job and how to contact Danish companies for the job ad, like how to network. these pillars with the CV and LinkedIn, then you can do all like work with everything else. It's the same when you're also moving abroad. Get those pillars in place. The basics. Exactly. So yeah, language. Learn how to do, like learn the language as well. That's also a really good pillar as well. Yeah, absolutely. It says a reason it's called a basic, because without that you will fail. You will set up yourself for failure. Yeah. Anything else you did? Regarding... Oh, not regarding moving to another country. Yeah, I'm just, no, I'm just, I'm just thinking of an advice, a tip I got from a friend who moved from Australia to Austria. And that's, yeah. I just mentioned it, maybe, yeah, then you have an idea what... ..what you think yourself. My own story. She mentioned to me... She mentioned to me when she moved from Australia to Austria, she missed... Vegemite so much and she couldn't get it in Austria. And she said, and that was her comfort food. And one, yeah, it's a non-language, non-job related tip. And she said she had to find an Austrian comfort food. And for her that was Almdudler, which is a very Austrian, Southern German soda. And that's what I often tell people, find your comfort food in that new culture, find. Find something that helps you through a bad day. Something, for me, that's in the Netherlands, it's oppelflap, it's a really good apple pastry. But if you can't get something from your home country. That's a really good tip. Like for me, yeah, it's... When I, honestly I didn't do a lot of the prep work that I probably should have. I mean I just, you know, I came to Europe at 18 and studying abroad and I ended up staying permanently and still being able to complete my bachelor's while living in Germany. That's an American degree. For me, I really just up and left. I really only owned a backpack. That was all I had. I just moved and I sold everything and took only my clothes and I just came. I was just such a young, naive American going in. I didn't really do a whole lot of research other than like, okay, I'm learning the language. I learned the language before coming. I was taking courses. I wasn't as expected. with, one thing I wish I could have done a little bit more was like, I guess you can say that research, but honestly, like I just jumped into it. I didn't do as much research or prepare, like because everything was ready for me because I was set up because I was part of the study abroad, so I didn't have to do a lot of like, you know, go like looking for myself at a dormitory or things like this. I stayed a little bit in my American group, but what ended up happening was that I ended up being bullied heavily. And so then I actually, what I ended up doing was being a little bit closer to my roommates and reaching out to be with Germans. And I felt more comfortable there because yes, I was partying and stuff like this, but I felt like the Americans were going a little bit too much overboard because they were 18, they couldn't drink. hardcore for me. So I didn't want to engage with that so much. I really just wanted to be part of the culture a little bit more and I wish I did in the beginning I wish I did more of that. And I would also encourage expats to do the same. Like don't stay within just like within your ethnicity group that makes because that's kind of like your comfort and that's what a lot of expats do. Like be with other internationals. It's easy right? Be with other Like go and try to reach out to the locals exactly and that's what I ended up doing was really trying to get closer to the locals and being part of and engaging in the community a lot more and something I wish I did earlier as well so that's any advice I would give is like just don't go to what makes you feel comfortable like really try to get yourself out there and get out of your comfort zone a little bit and be with different people to help you have a mindset. Exactly. Getting back to that. And that's, I think that is one of the best tips is if you're moving to another country, don't, now how should I say that? Maybe I'm cutting out that part because now I have to think how to say it in a nice way. Let me, let me put it from my perspective. If I want to move to the States, I for personally, I love New York. been there very often. Why would I only hang out with other Austrians there if I love New York so much? I'm not going to experience New York. if I'm going to my Austrian restaurant and meeting my Austrian friends. And that's what I did, my husband and me, we did, and I did that when we moved to the Netherlands. We really, really focused on having Dutch friends because that's the way how you learn the language, how you learn the culture, how you integrate into the whole thing that's happening here, how you start understanding humor because humor is very different from one country to the other. and I'm always telling my students that I forced myself to only listen to Dutch music for the first half year. Totally not my style of music, but I got the sound of the language into my head. And I still have my German playlist for homesick days. But it helps to get into that global mindset. Otherwise, yeah, we can all stay at home. which we don't want. We want to move around, we want to meet new exciting people and live life to its fullest. Exactly. Okay, wow, that was a lot of... Awesome tips I think and a great listening experience to my podcast listeners. Thank you so much. If I give you 30 seconds and you can give engineers one tip if they want to move to Denmark What would that be the number one tip if you had to wrap it up in 30 seconds Learn English. Learn Danish. learn both languages or learn to improve your English. I find this more with engineers and not so much as within, not that you can't in other areas but I find that of all the backgrounds that I work with, it's engineers that need to improve on their English skills. Interesting. Yeah. Good for me. Yeah, no, I'm saying that to be genuine too. It's not just about the podcast. I genuinely believe that, you know, you need to. to improve on your English and also learn Danish and that's one thing you need to start doing even if you put that in your CV and a lot of the times you know especially with CV like even if it's like you know Danish beginner like put it in and then you could start you know because that's the part of showing it's not just about the Danish labor market but I think it's just like for any country that you want to move and go into language is shows that you are very serious that you are that you want to move into the country because I remember talking to a client some months ago and she was like well I'm applying to countries doesn't that show that I'm serious I'm like no It's not applying to a job does not show that you're serious What makes you serious about moving to the country is saying that I'm willing to learn the language and it does show appreciation Yeah, thank you. That's a great tip. Thank you so, so very much. I had so much fun talking to you. If you want to work with Kate, if you want to learn more about her, I'm putting all her links into the podcast description. Kate Dahl, career consultant for internationals who are moving to Denmark. Thank you so much, Kate. That was it. That was English for Engineers. I'm your host, Olivia Augustin. Talk to you soon.